1985 Lap Rialto 2 (hopefully a more concise version of it) - this may take me time to update it.

15th June 2012

Preparing for cylinder head removal.....

I'll let the pics do the talking, but it looks like the nasty mayo didn't get to the engine oil.
Coolant drained from the cylinder block:-




Minor crack on the centre console by the heater cable's mounting. I have used epoxy resin to prevent the crack from spreading any further:-




Rear engine cover with a couple of screws missing:-




Rear engine cover removed. Core plug looks intact and hasn't been leaking either. I'll probably replace it anyway as it looks a bit rusty:-




Nasty white mayo all over the inside of the rocker cover indicating that the head gasket has failed:-




Some mayo/sludge by the thermostat housing. The coolant that came out from the cylinder block appeared to be clear:-




Sludge removed from near the thermostat housing:-




Oil/water mix on top of the cylinder head. Thankfully, the oil appeared to be clear at the bottom of the push rods:-






Oil appears to be clear on the dipstick:-




Sludge wiped off the cylinder head and ready for removal. I have soaked the cylinder head nuts in PlusGas and I'll be leaving that to soak overnight before I attempt to remove the cylinder head tomorrow:-
I just hope that the cylinder block and cylinder head are not warped, but I can only find out when I remove the cylinder head tomorrow.

Posts by others on 15th June 2012

kevhallett
Looking good so far, keep us Posted.

Tickersoid
'Tis better to have the luxury of PlusGas and time rather than angle grinder and Semtex.

16th June 2012

Cylinder head removal:-

I have finally managed to remove the cylinder head today (in fact it came off without too much difficulty). I'll let the pics do the talking....


Cylinder head nuts removed from the cylinder head:-




Cylinder head removal tool in place (I had to cut up four extra short bits of tubing as the ones I made up last year were not long enough):-




It took me a while to remove the cylinder (about 2 hours or so) and I had to use a rubber mallet to persuade the cylinder head to lift off squarely. I eventually managed to wriggle the cylinder head off the block.


Cylinder head as it came off the cylinder block:-




Very poor quality cylinder head gasket fitted to the engine (it looks like that it hasn't really stuck to anything). The waterway holes do not line up (especially at the front end of the engine), cylinders 2 and 3's compression rings are oval and there is a waterway hole in the head gasket where there's no waterway !!!








Fortunately, when I gave the cylinder head and piston crowns a very quick wipe over, it looks like oil had got there rather than water/oil mix. Hopefully, I may have got away with it.


However, when I had a closer look at the cylinder head, it looks like someone had levered it with a screwdriver in the past in two places I really hope that the cylinder head is not scrap (I could not feel any raised spots on the cylinder head at all).






I'll be removing the head gasket and clean up the cylinder block and cylinder heads shortly and hope that there are no cracks nor any other damage on them.

Post by Azzy 16th June 2012

Those rings around the bores are fine, that's how some are shaped infact there are quite a few odd shapes used over the years, I believe it to be down to compression, its the same gasket (might not be the same thickness) as what the 869 is currently using, I think it was supplied by us aswell all those years back.
The very slightly marks from where the head has been removed previously is nothing to go mad about, however you do need to go over it and make sure there are no high spots, they usually appear around the chambers due to heat.

16th June 2012

Cylinder head gasket removed from the cylinder block before clean up. At least from first appearances neither the cylinder head nor the cylinder block appear to be cracked. It doesn't appear to be cracked on the cylinder head where it was levered with screwdrivers either (I just hope that the cylinder head isn't scrap).




Old cylinder head gasket (cylinder head side):-




Old cylinder head gasket (engine block side):-

16th June 2012

AzzY wrote:

Those rings around the bores are fine, that's how some are shaped infact there are quite a few odd shapes used over the years, I believe it to be down to compression, its the same gasket (might not be the same thickness) as what the 869 is currently using, I think it was supplied by us aswell all those years back.
The very slightly marks from where the head has been removed previously is nothing to go mad about, however you do need to go over it and make sure there are no high spots, they usually appear around the chambers due to heat.

Phew. At least it sounds like that the cylinder head isn't scrap.
I'll be doing a good clean up of both the cylinder head and cylinder block soon. After that, I'll be using a set square and ruler (I don't have a flat sheet of glass) to make sure that the cylinder head and cylinder block do not have any high spots.
I'm guessing when you mentioned the chambers, you are referring to the steel liners ?

Posts by others 16th June 2011

AzzY

Combustion Chambers




Around them you'll likely notice some high spots. Can be easily sorted with a flat file and time, I've never touched a block before I generally clean the gasket off then lightly go over it with a sanding block just to clear up the surface. The only true way to flatten the deck would be to remove the studs/liners but i've never found a need for it and I don't think anyone else has?

Have seen heads in worse condition and are still re-usable due to the damage not being between water/oil ways etc.


jessejazza

I'd use a proper Reliant head gasket next time, lap in new valves and she'll be fine.

16th June 2012

I don't even know what manufacturer of head gasket was used as it was fitted before I bought it.
The one I intend to replace it with is a Gasket for Classics head gasket, which I fitted to my Rialto SE over a year ago (and they fit properly). I have had no problems with that gasket so far.

17th June 2011

Cylinder head and cylinder block after degreasing and a quick wipe over:-


Cylinder head:-












Cylinder block. I did try to get rid of as much burnt on muck from cylinders 2 and 3 as possible:-

17th June 2011

A bit more clean up work today...

Cylinder head (to cylinder block mating surface) after cleaning it up with plain scouring pads. The cylinder head itself is also straight.




Cylinder block (to cylinder head mating surface) carefully cleaned up with a scouring pad (well as much as I dared to do as I did not want bits of green scouring pad down the bores, oilways nor waterways):-

Posts by others 17th June 2012

Tickersoid

Bum! Just finished the long climb up from Neath to the Beacons. Guess what I've just found under my oil filler cap! I really do need to upgrade the cooling system. It's been flushed many times and the plug at the back has been poked and prodded clean. I blame the newer, less efficient radiator fitted.
I always watch the temp' gauge and never let it get to within 2mm of the white line on 'H'. I re-torqued the head after fitting.
I asked for a thin gasket last time, should I try the thicker one, or is that just to lower the compression on yellow top heads?
It seems logical to me that as long as the head and block are flat a thinner one is stronger.
Bum!


kevhallett

Mayo in the Oil could just be that the engine hadn't been getting hot enough, and that it has got some condensation in it. It has been exceptionally Wet over the past few weeks.


jessejazza

Tickersoid wrote:

Bum! Just finished the long climb up from Neath to the Beacons. Guess what I've just found under my oil filler cap! I really do need to upgrade the cooling system.

Oh dear... is this a head gasket you put on recently? Did you retorque head nuts?
I seem to have the same with my motor hence why i asked. I carefully retorqued and i think there's a slight weep at the back of the block. You say need to upgrade the cooling system... what condition is the rad in?

17th June 2012

Tickersoid wrote:

Bum! Just finished the long climb up from Neath to the Beacons. Guess what I've just found under my oil filler cap! I really do need to upgrade the cooling system. It's been flushed many times and the plug at the back has been poked and prodded clean. I blame the newer, less efficient radiator fitted.
I always watch the temp' gauge and never let it get to within 2mm of the white line on 'H'. I re-torqued the head after fitting.
I asked for a thin gasket last time, should I try the thicker one, or is that just to lower the compression on yellow top heads?
It seems logical to me that as long as the head and block are flat a thinner one is stronger.
Bum!

How many times have you retorqued the cylinder head nuts ?
I had to retorque my Rialto SE engine's cylinder head nuts at least 4 times before I was happy to drive it on the road (I did however did a simulated run in the garage by running the engine at about 2,000-odd RPM with a cold fan blowing towards it for about 20 minutes or so). The engine in my Rialto SE is also a yellow top (October 1985) engine.
When I get my Rialto 2's engine back together I will be retorquing the cylinder head nuts as often as necessary until they no longer become slack after the engine has cooled down.

Posts by others 17th June 2012

AzzY

Looking good Phade, I wouldn't worry about cleaning up pistons etc too much as they'll just end up cruddy again pretty quickly.

jessejazza wrote:

I'd use a proper Reliant head gasket next time, lap in new valves and she'll be fine.

That is a "proper" Reliant head gasket, its what Reliant use to supply when we still had the van delivering parts here

Tickersoid wrote:

I always watch the temp' gauge and never let it get to within 2mm of the white line on 'H'. I re-torqued the head after fitting.
I asked for a thin gasket last time, should I try the thicker one, or is that just to lower the compression on yellow top heads?
It seems logical to me that as long as the head and block are flat a thinner one is stronger.
Bum!

There isn't such thing as a thin or thick gasket (as such) its merely how thick it is before and after compression (compression being after its been torqued down). Over the last few years there have been quite a few different thickness appear, on the E stamp engine when overhauling the engine it was common to have the head skimmed a little and the thickest gasket put on or you'd end up with higher compression which could effect things in various ways.
The gasket for classic ones seem to be around the average thickness and are the general use ones that literally everyone uses now.


jessejazza

AzzY wrote:

That is a "proper" Reliant head gasket, its what Reliant use to supply when we still had the van delivering parts here

...
The gasket for classic ones seem to be around the average thickness and are the general use ones that literally everyone uses now.
I bought one with red goo on it over a year ago... it didn't fit over the studs properly and was as far as i was concerned unusable.

17th June 2012

This is the head gasket I used on my Rialto SE's yellow top engine last year (Gaskets for Classics VCK 622 - "Yellow Rocker Cover Models Only"):-

Posts by others 18th June 2012

Tickersoid

False alarm. Cleaned out the mayo. Did my usual 50 mile round trip and had no problem.


jessejazza
Perhaps cold air getting in through the breather pipe. where's the end of the breather pipe attached to - open or onto carb?

Posts by others 19th June 2012

Tickersoid

The breather pipe was directed into a one pint plastic milk bottle with enough slack in the lid for it to breath. So it could be cold air.


jessejazza

As after cleaning the rocker cover it would seem that cold air was the culprit. Had you done a few long trips without cleaning it out it would probably have cleared. With my car i think i had a slight weeping head gasket as the two front cylinders were slightly wet.

22nd June 2012

Update on my Rialto 2:-

Last night.....
Cylinder head with two missing collets (that flew off one of my valve spring compressor tools after I hit it with a mallet to try and free them):-




Using on of my valve spring compressor tools to install two collets that arrived from kitten3 yesterday:-




All eight valves in place with new valve stem seals:-

22nd June 2012

This morning....

Cylinder head to cylinder block alignment check (metal to metal contact). It appears that both the cylinder head and cylinder block are straight

Post by jessejazza 22nd June 2012

phade wrote:

Using on of my valve spring compressor tools to install two collets that arrived from kitten3 yesterday:-

Isn't this tool one of those for replacing valve oil seals without taking off the head? What make is it? I think i've seen them on eBin but it's difficult to know what's a decent tool unless one's some feedback from someone who's used one.

Post 22nd June 2012

This is one of the spring compressor tools I used, which is on here
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/KD-Tools-...UK_Measuring_Tools_Levels&hash=item48347ce4e6 .
It's pretty good and it's robust too.

Having said that, I am also thinking about buying this one from the same seller
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Trident-V...UK_Measuring_Tools_Levels&hash=item2c4d6b9531 .

I have also met that eBay seller in person too when I was at a VW show in Chalvington nearly 3 years ago when he delivered my Innova timing light to me (he had loaned me his SnapOn MT1261 at the time).

Anyway, I'll post some more update pics when I have done some more work to my Rialto 2.

23rd June 2012

Starting to re-assemble the engine:-

Hi everyone, I have now started to re-assemble my Rialto 2's engine (I got too tired, so I'll carry on with that tomorrow). Anyway, I'll let the pics do the talking....

One old heater hose that I forgot to remove. All of the heater hoses will be replaced:-




Cylinder head gasket on the cylinder block (this took me a while to make sure that it fitted properly without damaging the head gasket):-




Cylinder head now re-united with the cylinder block. I also retightened the inlet and exhaust manifold nuts to 15 lbft before fitting the cylinder head to the cylinder block.




Cylinder head nuts fitted. The main 12 cylinder head nuts were gradually tightened (from initially nipping them up with a ratchet) to 25 lbft in 5 lbft steps. The other 3 cylinder head nuts were gradually tightened to 15 lbft:-




Rusty old cylinder head core plug removed:-








Loose rust, etc. removed from the cylinder head's core plug hole:-




New cylinder head core plug fitted:-

24th June 2012

Exhaust down pipe refitted (with a new gasket):-




A couple of raised bits of the inlet manifold's carburetter heater block mounting gently filed down:-






Distributor, rocker shaft refitted and valve clearances set (this in addition to retorqueing the cylinder head will have to be done again after the engine has warmed up and then left to cool down for several hours):-




Spark plugs refitted. At this point I decided to stop working on it for tonight:-

Post by Tickersoid 24th June 2012

Your rocker shaft mounting pillars look very clean. What technique did you use?

24th June 2012

I just simply used a couple of spray cans of degreaser, gave the cylinder head a good wipe down and let it dry. I then used plain scouring pads to gently clean off any burnt on muck on the cylinder head and cylinder block surfaces. The main thing is to make sure that none of the bits that come off the scouring pads end up inside the cylinder head nor the block themselves.
I have very nearly got my Rialto 2's engine ready, but could not fill it up with coolant in time for the F1 race on tele. Pics will be posted later.

Posts by kevhallet 24th June 2012

phade wrote:

I just simply used a couple of spray cans of degreaser, gave the cylinder head a good wipe down and let it dry. I then used plain scouring pads to gently clean off any burnt on muck on the cylinder head and cylinder block surfaces. The main thing is to make sure that none of the bits that come off the scouring pads end up inside the cylinder head nor the block themselves.
I have very nearly got my Rialto 2's engine ready, but could not fill it up with coolant in time for the F1 race on tele. Pics will be posted later.

Looks good, you could have used Wheaters' technique of washing it in the Dishwasher as well!