1985 Lap Rialto 2 (hopefully a more concise version of it) - this may take me time to update it.

24th June 2012

[QUOTE-"kevhallett"]
Looks good, you could have used Wheaters' technique of washing it in the Dishwasher as well!
[/QUOTE]

Not where I live I won't. The hard water around here is full of limescale (and I haven't got a dish washer either).

24th June 2012

Got the engine back together today and ran the engine for a few minutes:-

I managed to get my Rialto 2's engine running again (albeit badly and I hope that's just the cylinder head gasket starting to bed in). Anyway, I'll let the pics do the talking.

Rocker cover and new heater hoses fitted:-










Rear engine cover temporarily refitted so that I can operate the choke to start it:-




I have managed to run the engine until the temperature gauge just got above cold and I then had to switch it off. It runs horribly at the moment and needs choke to make it idle, but I just hope that's the head gasket bedding in for the first time. I'm going to leave the engine to cool down for several hours before I retorque the cylinder head.

I'm not sure wether I'll be able to get my Rialto 2 ready for the Southern Area Rally at this rate and may need help at some point if I cannot get it to run properly later on.

Post by kevhallett 24th June 2012

phade wrote:

I have managed to run the engine until the temperature gauge just got above cold and I then had to switch it off. It runs horribly at the moment and needs choke to make it idle, but I just hope that's the head gasket bedding in for the first time. I'm going to leave the engine to cool down for several hours before I retorque the cylinder head.
I'm not sure wether I'll be able to get my Rialto 2 ready for the Southern Area Rally at this rate and may need help at some point if I cannot get it to run properly later on.

You've got me thinking now, My Kitten has run like a Dog, ever since the head was done, needs an over rich mixture to compensate for it. I fitted a Richer needle in the end, but it's still not right.
Any ideas?

24th June 2012

Dunno yet, I'll wait for the engine to cool down first, retorque the head, re-adjust everything and find out.

Post by AMAM 24th June 2012

i would of thought you'd paint the rocker cover since it was off phill

24th June 2012

I just wanted to get it going Adam The sooner the better.

Once it starts to run properly again, I may get round to that, but the main thing I want to do is to get it to the Southern Area rally this coming weekend.

Post by str8lolly on 24th June 2012

Run like a dog? Tappets?

24th June 2012

Yep it definitely does that, waiting for the engine to cool down before I retorque the cylinder head and redo the tappets. I'm hoping that it was the cylinder head gasket bedding in for the first time.

Post by generaldukes 24th June 2012

hello all, just looking at the layout of the heater pipes in these pics, does it matter which way the pipes coming away from the heater are placed, as mine are looking from the front of the car , left hand side goes to the rear of cylinder head and right hand side goes to the water pump, my problem is that car runs hot all the time and could be the guage but could it be the layout of the pipes ?

Post by jessejazza on 24th June 2012

generaldukes wrote:

hello all, just looking at the layout of the heater pipes in these pics, does it matter which way the pipes coming away from the heater are placed, as mine are looking from the front of the car , left hand side goes to the rear of cylinder head and right hand side goes to the water pump, my problem is that car runs hot all the time and could be the guage but could it be the layout of the pipes ?

Not really provided there's circulation of coolant. If the valve doesn't work that could be the answer. On many cars [as is the case with a tripod if you have the newer square heater] the inlet pipe is the lower one and the outlet is the higher.

What is the flow layout on your car? There are two routes one is for fast flow and one for slow flow - if you've mixed them up that could be the problem. a] is the fast flow
a] back of block ->heater inlet->heater outlet->water pump
b] front of block->manifold adaptor bottom nozzle->adaptor top nozzle->water pump
[that's if you want any heat out of the heater]

I haven't got a heater but i have got a header tank - i connect the back of block straight to the water pump. I'll put the heater back when winter is closer. In the case of b] it provides the bypass while warming up and some heat [which i don't think is worth bothering with] for the adaptor. On my car the front of block with a hose reducer feeds the inlet of the header tank.

Posts by others 24th June 2012

generaldukes

there is no valve for the heater as it was removed by previous owner so thats not the problem, the only thing still to change is the guage which i will do this week, dont need heat from heater as i only use car for pleasure purposes, so will leave the pipes as they are now thanks.


jessejazza

generaldukes wrote:

there is no valve for the heater as it was removed by previous owner so thats not the problem, the only thing still to change is the guage which i will do this week, dont need heat from heater as i only use car for pleasure purposes, so will leave the pipes as they are now thanks.

Assuming the coolant is flowing and you've connected as i've mentioned or similar that's ok. You say the engine is hot; indicated by gauge or 'ouch' if you put your hand on the thermostat cover, if not ouch i'd say the voltage stabiliser is duff [what's the fuel gauge telling you? if both gauges go high it's most likely the voltage stabiliser] - temp gauge or sender knackered. [If you put your hand on there it should feel hot (like able to count 1 to 5 without burning) but 'ouch' is rather different. My temp gauge reads low [i don't know if it's the sender but not the gauge] and i'm replacing it with a mechanical/capillary one and then i know exactly what the temp is - you may like to consider it £25. Useful thing to have and if it was say the sender then you can get one later and fit when convenient. A mechanical gauge can always be used on another car so it's not money wasted.
Please NO Private messages just email


IndianRob

phade wrote:

This is one of the spring compressor tools I used, which is on here http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/KD-Tools-...UK_Measuring_Tools_Levels&hash=item48347ce4e6 . It's pretty good and it's robust too.
...

I found the KD tool on US ebay for a bit over £5 http://www.ebay.com/itm/270947602914

I don't know if he'll ship to the UK but if a few members want one at that price I can buy and ship. I ordered one for myself and when it arrives I'll describe.

Posts by others 25th June 2012

generaldukes
its just the guage that shows hot but can touch pipes ok and can even take rad cap off after a good run so its got to be guage as ive changed everthing else.


AzzY

generaldukes wrote:

its just the guage that shows hot but can touch pipes ok and can even take rad cap off after a good run so its got to be guage as ive changed everthing else.

There are a few senders out there, which suit different applications.

25th June 2012

Hi everyone,

I have now retorqued the cylinder head twice and have changed the oil once already. I have also had exactly the same problem as I had yesterday when I ran the engine where it's oil turned white and slightly sludgy. Are any of the recent Gaskets for Classics head gaskets duff ? I did order the correct head gasket from them (VCK 622 "Yellow Rocker Covers Only") for my Rialto 2 and I have fitted another one of those to my Rialto SE last year, which is still fine.

On both occasions, I had to use choke to keep the engine running (carburetter's mixture screw 23 flats out).

I am getting really sick and tired of these faults to be honest, so if anyone could have a look at it for me, I would really appreciate it. I don't want to have to sell it, but if it keeps doing that, I may have no choice as it's not paying it's way !

Post by str8lolly on 25th June 2012

I think your head has at some point in its life been skimmed. If it has, that would be the wrong thickness gasket. Perhaps also, your head is warped? You didnt have it skimmed before replacing it. Not that theres much there to be skimmed now. Problem with the yellow tops was that Reliant skimmed ordinary heads to put on them. Which is why they wont accept a yellow top back for overhaul now. How thick was the gasket you removed? My guess here is that you need the thicker gasket now.

25th June 2012

Yeah could be, I did order the Gaskets for Classics "Yellow Rocker Cover Only" head gasket set, but it looks like I'll have to look for decent thicker head gaskets (I'll try John or James to see if they can help).

I'm just really frustrated with the car at the moment to be honest. A lot of hard work for nothing !! It's also time that I cannot afford to keep wasting either !!

I'd rather just get someone to have a look at it and preferably fix it.

Posts by others 25th June 2012

str8lolly

phade wrote:

Yeah could be, I did order the Gaskets for Classics "Yellow Rocker Cover Only" head gasket set, but it looks like I'll have to look for decent thicker head gaskets (I'll try John or James to see if they can help).

I'm just really frustrated with the car at the moment to be honest. A lot of hard work for nothing !!

I wouldnt blame the gasket for classics one. Its probably correct for when they are new engines.

Its always a learning curve with Reliants. I am not a lover of the yellow tops. They are fine when running well, but terrible when there is a problem.


jessejazza

phade wrote:

I'm just really frustrated with the car at the moment to be honest. A lot of hard work for nothing !! It's also time that I cannot afford to keep wasting either !!
I'd rather just get someone to have a look at it and preferably fix it.

We've all been there! I had the engine out about four times last summer. The engine re-conditioner hadn't sorted out a slightly bent valve claiming he was an expert and i was stupid. I regret to say i don't trust a lot of folk these days. They weren't even going to make the effort lapping in the valve. Once i'd got a decent tool i did it myself... properly.


Daniel Rodd

bear in mind that when i changed the headgasket on my fox it took around 15 miles of blasting around before it would run properly,and about a month before it had got rid of all the damp in the system from when the gasket had failed.running it once or twice on your driveway will do sod all.its still full of damp and mayo from when it blew.


wheaters

I rang Gaskets for Classics some time back and they told me they only do the one thickness for the head gaskets. I hoped they could make some thicker ones but they said not. I measured mine - it was .047" thick as it came out of the packet.

The thicker gaskets I managed to find some years ago were .060" thick.

I was led to believe that no-one makes these any more. If anyone knows of a source, please post the info on the forum because I could do with one. My car's cylinder head is a skimmed yellow-top and due to the block having been shaved too, the compression ratio is always a concern. At the moment I have a Dick Harvey copper faced gasket on it but thiswill need replacing if I put the old cam back in.

Phade, your problem sounds like the one I had. I changed the head gasket three times in two days before I finally concluded something else really must be wrong with it. It turned out there was a crack from the water jacket into an inlet port, allowing water into one of the cylinders. I hope this isn't the same on your engine.

25th June 2012

I couldn't see any cracks in any of the liners when I looked at them (in situ with the cylinder block). They all looked nice and smooth as well as crack free.

If it is anything like that, then I will really need a hand with fixing my Rialto 2's engine as I may not be able to do it entirely on my own.

Posts by others on 25th June 2012

str8lolly

wheaters wrote:

I rang Gaskets for Classics some time back and they told me they only do the one thickness for the head gaskets. I hoped they could make some thicker ones but they said not. I measured mine - it was .047" thick as it came out of the packet.

The thicker gaskets I managed to find some years ago were .060" thick.

I was led to believe that no-one makes these any more. If anyone knows of a source, please post the info on the forum because I could do with one.

Phade, your problem sounds like the one I had. I changed the head gasket three times in two days before I finally concluded something else really must be wrong with it. It turned out there was a crack from the water jacket into an inlet port, allowing water into one of the cylinders. I hope this isn't the same on your engine.

There are a few thicker gaskets still about. Perhaps someone reading your post will have one?

Cracks in the blocks are becoming a problem now. With both the normal and yellow tops.


wheaters

phade wrote:

I couldn't see any cracks in any of the liners when I looked at them (in situ with the cylinder block). They all looked nice and smooth as well as crack free.

If it is anything like that, then I will really need a hand with fixing my Rialto 2's engine as I may not be able to do it entirely on my own.

Sorry, the crack was not in a liner, it was in the water jacket in the cylinder head casting, near a valve guide. I reckon it cracked when the guides were replaced. On the present cylinder head I had my local engine shop fit K-line phosphor valve guide inserts, so the originals stay put.

26th June 2012

I think I may have learnt about the mistakes I made when fitting the new head gasket to my Rialto 2 after having facebook chat/phone conversations with a few people. I have ordered another head gasket set from Gaskets for Classics and plan to do the following (to avoid the same mistakes !!):-

- Ream out the cylinder stud holes on the new head gasket so that the head gasket will drop straight down onto the cylinder block and ensure that the front (and other) waterway holes align properly.

- Run the engine without coolant for about 10 seconds after the cylinder head has just been refitted

- Leave the engine to cool overnight and retorque

- Torque up the cylinder head nuts to 30 lbft (after speaking to James - chgperformance) instead of 25 lbft.

Hopefully after I have done that (as well as cleaning everything up again), my Rialto 2's cylinder head gasket problems will stop.

Posts by others 26th June 2012

terribleone

phade wrote:

I think I may have learnt about the mistakes I made when fitting the new head gasket to my Rialto 2 after having facebook chat/phone conversations with a few people. I have ordered another head gasket set from Gaskets for Classics and plan to do the following (to avoid the same mistakes !!):-

- Ream out the cylinder stud holes on the new head gasket so that the head gasket will drop straight down onto the cylinder block and ensure that the front (and other) waterway holes align properly.

- Run the engine without coolant for about 10 seconds after the cylinder head has just been refitted

- Leave the engine to cool overnight and retorque

- Torque up the cylinder head nuts to 30 lbft (after speaking to James - chgperformance) instead of 25 lbft.

Hopefully after I have done that (as well as cleaning everything up again), my Rialto 2's cylinder head gasket problems will stop.

Thats how i do mine but I run mine coolant less for around a minute, or until the head gets fairly warm to the touch otherwise you aint melting what ever is on the gasket that needs melting to fuse head to block.


Malcs

phade wrote:

Hi everyone,

I have now retorqued the cylinder head twice and have changed the oil once already. I have also had exactly the same problem as I had yesterday when I ran the engine where it's oil turned white and slightly sludgy. Are any of the recent Gaskets for Classics head gaskets duff ? I did order the correct head gasket from them (VCK 622 "Yellow Rocker Covers Only") for my Rialto 2 and I have fitted another one of those to my Rialto SE last year, which is still fine.

On both occasions, I had to use choke to keep the engine running (carburetter's mixture screw 23 flats out).

I am getting really sick and tired of these faults to be honest, so if anyone could have a look at it for me, I would really appreciate it. I don't want to have to sell it, but if it keeps doing that, I may have no choice as it's not paying it's way !

Did you run the engine for a few mins with no coolant in to allow the glue/resin in the gasket to melt/seal to the head and block then let it cool down before putting the coolant in? If you put the coolant in 1st it may have seeped past the gasket before the resins in it had chance to work. Could be a duff gasket but I doubt it this soon
Could it still be residual coolant in the sump from before the head gasget change?


Daniel Rodd

i said the same thing to him last nite malcs and no he didnt.but i also said the same as you that there will be loads of water and damp and mayo still in the system that needs to be burnt off before it will run well again,you need to go out and drive it.

26th June 2012

As the head gasket did start to weep coolant from the rear N/S of the cylinder head, it looks like that I'll have to replace the gasket and clean everything up again and do what I posted above (I was also on the phone to James - chgperformance this morning and I will follow his advice). After the retorque, I'll then go out and drive it to try and burn off the water, damp, etc.

Daniel Rodd wrote:

i said the same thing to him last nite malcs and no he didnt.but i also said the same as you that there will be loads of water and damp and mayo still in the system that needs to be burnt off before it will run well again,you need to go out and drive it.

You did, Dan. Hopefully after I have put another new head gasket on and do what I posted above, hopefully that problem will disappear.

Malcs wrote:

Did you run the engine for a few mins with no coolant in to allow the glue/resin in the gasket to melt/seal to the head and block then let it cool down before putting the coolant in? If you put the coolant in 1st it may have seeped past the gasket before the resins in it had chance to work. Could be a duff gasket but I doubt it this soon
Could it still be residual coolant in the sump from before the head gasget change?

No, I didn't but I will do after I have replaced the head gasket (again). I'll also ream out the holes on the new head gasket to ensure that it will just fall straight down onto the block and that all waterways are aligned properly.

It's a learning process for me (it didn't happen on my Rialto SE when I changed it's cylinder head gasket) and don't forget I'm still relatively new to Reliants and how they work (I also like to learn how to do things correctly).

Posts by others 26th June 2012

Malcs

phade wrote:

No, I didn't but I will do after I have replaced the head gasket (again). I'll also ream out the holes on the new head gasket to ensure that it will just fall straight down onto the block and that all waterways are aligned properly.

It's a learning process for me (it didn't happen on my Rialto SE when I changed it's cylinder head gasket) and don't forget I'm still relatively new to Reliants and how they work (I also like to learn how to do things correctly).

you dont want to run the engine to long, but long enough for some heat to get into the gasket.


Daniel Rodd

i usually run mine for about 4 mins


AzzY

Looking at the pictures, the head looks like its never been skimmed or skimmed very little from standard (E stamp standard). If the torque at 25lbs isn't enough to seal it you have a problem somewhere, don't try to "fix it" by over tightening or you might just come across other problems. Engine should run fine even from a completely rebuilt engine, if it doesn't something isn't right.

Posts by others on 26th June 2012

kevhallett

Daniel Rodd wrote:

i usually run mine for about 4 mins

Seems a bit long, when James did mine we ran it until it started to smell hot, then turned it off. probably only a couple of minutes at the most.


kevhallett

AzzY wrote:

Looking at the pictures, the head looks like its never been skimmed or skimmed very little from standard (E stamp standard). If the torque at 25lbs isn't enough to seal it you have a problem somewhere, don't try to "fix it" by over tightening or you might just come across other problems. Engine should run fine even from a completely rebuilt engine, if it doesn't something isn't right.

James did mine to 28, when initially torqued down. Just done it again to 25, as it has now done 1,000 miles.


Daniel Rodd

its not the mileage that should be taken into account,its the number of hot and cold cycles of the head expanding and contracting.hence why i ran dry,cooled overnight,retorqued in morning.ran for a few mins with coolant in,retorqued once cooled down.drove for 10 miles,repeated again.
checked it again after 100 miles and 500 miles and no retorquing nessesary. 4 mins was fine for my rebel as i could still touch the head without getting burned.


sparesman2000

my thick head gaskets are approx 056 thous
I do have a few in stock

26th June 2012

I've just sent you an email John. I think that a thicker head gasket may help.

(I have also ordered another Gaskets for Classics "Yellow Rocker Cover Models Only" VCK 622 head gasket set form Gaskets for Classics as well).

Posts by others on 26th June 2012

jessejazza

wheaters wrote:

The thicker gaskets I managed to find some years ago were .060" thick.

I was led to believe that no-one makes these any more. If anyone knows of a source, please post the info on the forum because I could do with one.
Reliant Partsworld and James at CHG have them... i'm sure they're still 60 thou.


wheaters

Thanks!


jessejazza

Daniel Rodd wrote:

its not the mileage that should be taken into account,its the number of hot and cold cycles of the head expanding and contracting.hence why i ran dry,cooled overnight,retorqued in morning.ran for a few mins with coolant in,retorqued once cooled down.drove for 10 miles,repeated again.
checked it again after 100 miles and 500 miles and no retorquing nessesary. 4 mins was fine for my rebel as i could still touch the head without getting burned.

That's a long time without coolant. 30 secs is fine to get some heat into the heads. that's all i did on V6 Essex engines - i wouldn't do it any longer with them but i think they heat up much more than a Reliant engine. It's known established practice on many engines.