1985 Lap Rialto 2 (hopefully a more concise version of it) - this may take me time to update it.

Post by kevhallet on 10th June 2012

Fit one of these, http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Reliant-R...arts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&hash=item1c2293c08a
Got one on mine, along with an Ignition Amplifier and a New Carburettor, runs sweet as a nut now.
None of the problems you had with the distributors of old in that it's a strait fit, just need to use the clamp upside down, or use your old clamp.
If you're worried about having the correct Advance, just tell him the part number of your old distributor and he'll match the advance, so it is swapping like for like.

10th June 2012

Hi everyone,
I have fitted a new set of Intermotor points and a new Intermotor distributor cap. The car now seems easier to start (although I had to reset the fuel mixutre again, something must be wrong somewhere !).
Whilst I was running the engine in the driveway, I noticed fresh oil had re-appeared on the carburetter's drip tray. I think that I will have to replace the carburetter's base and heater block gaskets as I may have re-used them too often.
I forgot to post pics of the condensation coming from the oil breather. The engine oil is clear as you can see from the pics, so I hope that it won't be head gasket replacement time (it's not as bad as my Rialto SE was before I replaced it's head gasket):-

Post by Tickersoid on 10th June 2012

Do you have a flexi scope with integral lamp to stick down the plugholes to look for water ingress?

10th June 2012

I do have an inspection camera and I may have a look down the plug holes when it stops raining.

Post by str8lolly on 10th June 2012

Its frothy man! Iced coffee? Or a blown headgasket? You choose?

10th June 2012

I was beginning to wonder that even though the rest of the engine oil is clear.

Posts by others on 10th June 2012

AMAM

phill, do the simpliest thing in the world to find out, clean it, run it and then look


Daniel Rodd

easy way to tell if h/g,take the rocker cover off,if its got mayo spread out all over the inside of the rocker cover,its gone,if its just around the filler,it could just be damp.

10th June 2012

I could try that even though I have cleaned it out before (it was grey-ish froth and a lot less of it when the engine ran hot).
Thinking about it, it could have explained a lot of things. I think the head gasket problem may have been hidden when the engine used to run hot (eg. hardly any condensation) and I think it's now become more obvious as the engine now runs a lot cooler. It could also explain the high pressure within the cooling system.

I'll order a yellow top head gasket set from Gaskets for Classics just in case. Not looking forward to replacing it (it was a pain to do on my Rialto SE last year), but if it needs to be replaced then it will be replaced.

Daniel Rodd wrote:

easy way to tell if h/g,take the rocker cover off,if its got mayo spread out all over the inside of the rocker cover,its gone,if its just around the filler,it could just be damp.

It seems to be just around the filler neck and oil filler cap. The rest of the engine oil appears to be clear.
I'll poke my inspection camera inside the rocker cover when it's stopped raining to see wether there is any of that nasty sludge inside the rocker cover its self.
My Rialto SE's rocker cover was completely covered in sludge and it stank of petrol when I had to replace it's head gasket.

Post by Daniel Rodd on 10th June 2012

its 2 nuts,take it off?i dont think ive had one headgasket failure where the oil on the stick was contaminated,so that is not a reliable sign.

10th June 2012

Blown head gasket

I just quickly put my finger inside the rocker cover (I could not get my inspection camera inside the rocker cover) and found a very thick film of nasty white sludge all over the front end of the rocker cover. I asked Nicky (my fiancée) wether that sludge smells of petrol (as I suffer from hayfever and can't smell things very well) and she said that it did smell of petrol.

It looks like my Rialto 2 may be off the road for a while (at least a week or so) whilst I wait for the head gasket set to arrive and have the time to replace it. I'm not looking forward to that job to be honest and I hope the head will come off without too much of a struggle. If I end up being short on time, I may need someone to help me to remove the cylinder head.

After that, I hope all of the other irritating problems will eventually disappear like they have done on my Rialto SE.

Posts by others on 10th June 2012 - This highlights that I should have retorqued the cylinder head when I first got it !!

kevhallett

Here's Blown Head Gasket for you!




And here's how to get rid of it!




Soon gets rid of the Mayo!



AzzY

I think I said Phil that when the old fella built it he was on his last legs, he never even run the engine for very long after it was built, if he run it at all.. I can't remember exactly but I do remember having it brought here on my mates recovery truck as it wasn't running at the time.
Its likely that it was only torqued the once and I don't know how he torqued them down but he likely done it by the book and it didn't get done after.
However it should come off ok as it was fully rebuilt.


jessejazza

I think those are the ones which have the red goo on. A much better fit is the Reliant ones... you can have my red one for free - i didn't bother putting it on.

10th June 2012

Yeah those are the ones. The set I bought is on here http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/RELIANT-8...arts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&hash=item2ea5b9bc6c

I did lightly smear the metal parts of the cylinder head gasket with general purpose grease (I followed Reliant's workshop manual) when I fitted it to my Rialto SE over a year ago.

Post by Daniel Rodd 10th June 2012

once its gone its gone,retorquing will do nothing.especially after 10,000 miles.

10th June 2012

In that case, the only cure will be replacement.

Posts by others on 10th June 2012

AzzY

I think I stuck a gasket for classic gasket in my old engine forgot how many miles its done since though, as far as I know its ok still.. That is the only one I've used in my own engines.


jessejazza

kevhallet wrote:

And here's how to get rid of it!
[IMG]http://www.zen13.com/javascript%3Cb%3E%3C/b%3E:void%280%29[IMG]

Soon gets rid of the Mayo!

Lots of black smoke too.
Why not just pour into an old oil/antifreeze can and then use some loo paper or kitchen role to clean up the residue. Ruin the sump like that.

Posts by others on 11th June 2012

pop-rivet

phade wrote:

Yeah those are the ones. The set I bought is on here http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/RELIANT-8...arts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&hash=item2ea5b9bc6c
I did lightly smear the metal parts of the cylinder head gasket with general purpose grease (I followed Reliant's workshop manual) when I fitted it to my Rialto SE over a year ago.

Not had a problem with those gaskets, seem fine to me...everything needs to be as clean as a surgeons table... also check all the drillings in the gasket against the head & block for lining up (I expect you did) blue print if need be, then check block & head faces for flatness.


Tickersoid

In my experience, smearing head gaskets with grease makes them more likely to fail.


AMAM

Tickersoid wrote:

In my experience, smearing head gaskets with grease makes them more likely to fail.

i'd never had any issues doing it like that, 2 reliant garages told me thats how they do them....

11th June 2012

pop-rivet wrote:

Not had a problem with those gaskets, seem fine to me...everything needs to be as clean as a surgeons table... also check all the drillings in the gasket against the head & block for lining up (I expect you did) blue print if need be, then check block & head faces for flatness.

I did check that when I replaced my Rialto SE's head gasket last year. I probably won't have time to do any more work on my Rialto 2 this week (I have just drained it's engine oil and it does look very slightly sludgy - pic to appear later) as I need to get my fiancée's Bedford CF2 horsebox through it's MOT this week.

Posts by others 11th June 2012

AzzY


[quote="AMAM"]
i'd never had any issues doing it like that, 2 reliant garages told me thats how they do them....[/b]

Always put a light smear around the metal parts, apart from the recent build where I stuck the gasket on dry.


pop-rivet

AMAM wrote:

i'd never had any issues doing it like that, 2 reliant garages told me thats how they do them....

Tickersoid wrote:

In my experience, smearing head gaskets with grease makes them more likely to fail.

AzzY wrote:

Always put a light smear around the metal parts, apart from the recent build where I stuck the gasket on dry.

I think some confusion exists? doing just the metal parts around the bores is probably fine, doing the whole gasket I think would fail, or at least I would not be inclined to do the whole face of the gasket..unless it was not a head one..

11th June 2012

[QUOTE="AzzY|]
Always put a light smear around the metal parts, apart from the recent build where I stuck the gasket on dry.
[/QUOTE]

That's what I did to my Rialto SE's head gasket last year (I very lightly smeared grease on the metal parts of the gasket only).

Posted by Tickersoid 11th June 2011

AMAM wrote:

i'd never had any issues doing it like that, 2 reliant garages told me thats how they do them....

Tickersoid wrote:

In my experience, smearing head gaskets with grease makes them more likely to fail.

Pop-rivet wrote:

I think some confusion exists? doing just the metal parts around the bores is probably fine, doing the whole gasket I think would fail, or at least I would not be inclined to do the whole face of the gasket..unless it was not a head one..

I think I've done about four in my time, all dry, and none of them have failed. It may well be there is a good reason for the smear around the bores, but I can't think what that might be.
In truth, I haven't had a Reliant gasket fail due to grease smearing because, having followed the incorrect advice in other Haynes manuals, I stopped doing it.
Every head gasket I've lightly smeared with grease, in the approved Haynes manner has failed.....OK it was about 4 attempts to do a two stroke single with an all metal head gasket. First time I fitted it dry it was fine.

11th June 2012

I only followed the Reliant Robin workshop manual (the one produced by Reliant themselves). Anyway, I will soon be posting a pic of the engine oil that came out after only about 350 miles.

11th June 2012

The oil with a small amount of mayo as I drained it when the engine was warm. Hopefully, I caught the blown head gasket in time and hope that it won't be too difficult to remove the cylinder head when I will have time to do it:-

Posts by others on 11th June 2012

kevhallett

The worrying thing is, with regards my Kitten, is that there was No water going in to the oil, however the Radiator was filling up with Oil! (opposite way round to yours), engine ran pretty well considering, and yet look at the condition of the Stud that had welded itself to the head, pure Oxide! The block was free of scale, as Antifreeze levels had always been maintained as well. Just goes to show, that even a well maintained Engine can cause trouble.
The Head was being replaced with a Reconditioned unit anyway to save time, the tools used looked pretty rough, but they were being used only on the Head side of the gasket, the Block was protected by the old Head gasket. Cutting being the only option in the end as time was an issue, although soaking for a few days with Plus gas may have freed it off eventually, but given the amount of Oxide on that stud, it may have ended up with scrapping the engine anyway, so cutting the head, saved the engine.

The Replacement Head, changed the Characteristics of the engine completely, the carburation was out, and in order to correct it, I fitted a Richer Jet Needle to compensate, car now has an AAC needle instead of an AAT. Funny how something as simple as changing a head can change an engine, isn't it?


kevhallett

jessejazza wrote:

Ruin the sump like that.

They should be Tin or Lead coated inside, the heat could easily burn it off and cause corrosion issues, not to mention Heat distortion, so you are correct. In the situation above, it was successful and no damage was done.
Point taken though


jessejazza

kevhallett wrote:

The worrying thing is, with regards my Kitten, is that there was No water going in to the oil, however the Radiator was filling up with Oil! (opposite way round to yours),
The Replacement Head, changed the Characteristics of the engine completely, the carburation was out, and in order to correct it, I fitted a Richer Jet Needle to compensate, car now has an AAC needle instead of an AAT. Funny how something as simple as changing a head can change an engine, isn't it?

If i recall correctly one problem that can happen with these engines particularly those that don't change their antifreeze each year is some porosity at the back of the block. I had this on one engine and junked it. I would have thought you had the same problem.... but if you're now motoring happily then no.

But the heads vary considerably... ok there hand made but... there's hand made and hand made. Reliant's equipment was getting worn 80's onwards. The studs in the block can be up to a mm out... that's a lot... hence the problem of trying to get a head to fit on another block. The head on my Rialto i can just lift off... the spare head i tried and it could just go on. There's quite a lot of difference in these two heads when i looked closely - i wouldn't mind betting on carb setting problems between them.

11th June 2012

Thankfully the cylinder head and engine block numbers are the same (that's also the case with my Rialto SE), so hopefully it should not be too difficult to remove the cylinder head.
I'll do the same trick as I did with my Rialto SE's engine and that was to leave the cylinder head nuts to soak for several hours (in either PlusGas or phCrackIt) before I even attempt to undo them and remove the cylinder head.

Post by jessejazza on 11th June 2012

Tickersoid wrote:

It may well be there is a good reason for the smear around the bores, but I can't think what that might be.

There is an element of truth in using a smear of grease on head gaskets.

With copper gaskets the recommendation was to use oil or grease on the face so that it bakes and makes a seal.

Later gaskets they did away with that idea and put a shellac that makes a seal as the engine warms up... whether that's like the Reliant gasket or like a Scimitar gasket which has a goo bead as well as the shellac.

One good practice is to run an engine without coolant after a rebuild for literally 10-20 seconds to help the gasket seal. That is established practice which folk on here have mentioned. A lot of Scimitar owners do it as well as the V6 is known for problems. I've done this with a scimitar and i think it's worth doing... i haven't with a Reliant engine as they heat up so gradually that it doesn't seem worth it to me.

As for grease! if one looks at the Reliant gasket which is of the shellac type there is some shellac on the copper/metal bits so i don't see the point of putting any extra on. Should one put grease over the face of the shellac gasket? Now the discussion could get interesting. Someone said to me they always put grease across the face of a scimitar gasket. That seems a daft idea; you clean it off, then stick dirt back on, and it seems to work fine!
But it only works with certain types of grease. He uses marine grease which has a low melting point and so it would bake. I actually tried this with the Scimitar, using LM grease and it worked beautifully. When you start up [and i had coolant in it... not trying the practice i mentioned earlier] you get this lovely sizzle - the grease cooking. LM is a high melting point grease so due to the high temp in a V6 head probably ok. Apparently mechanics do this on diesel engines and that's where the practice comes from - CR on diesels being 3-4 times that on a petrol.

Have you tried it on a Reliant engine? Yes, the first two i did and both were fine - no reason other than that's what i'd done on a Scimitar. The sizzle was there but reduced... not quite so effective as on a V6 so i wouldn't recommend it on Reliant engines. Grease also has penetrating qualities, i wouldn't put grease on a gasket for an engine i was going to store and use in a couple of years time. It worked when i did as i started the engine the following day i presume. I think the Reliant gaskets are very good quality and i wouldn't risk putting grease anywhere on them. Would i do it on a Scimitar again... yes and maybe the landrovers but i haven't decided yet (landrovers can have copper or shellac gaskets).

One thing i always do with a Reliant head [any aluminium head for that matter] is a light rub with 250 grit wet&dry. Wipe off carefully with meths, immediately putting the gasket and head on. Aluminium builds up an oxide layer and so i think leaving a block and head exposed to the air even overnight does reduce the sealing ability of the gasket against clean metal. Another thing to bear in mind is the studded block. The expansion that takes place is different to that of engines with head bolts and so i wouldn't use grease on my Heralds either.